Full transcript
[00:00:00.000] – Maxim Baldakov
Welcome to the Fraud Intel series, a show where we uncover regional fraud trends, fraud schemes, and emerging threats. I’m your host, Maxim Baldakov, Head of Fraud and Financial Crimes Solutions at Group-IB, covering the META region. Today, our guest is Lazhar Nouar, an expert in cybersecurity and fraud prevention. Lazhar, thank you so much for coming. To kick things off, could you please tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and how you ended up in the fraud prevention industry?
[00:00:25.740] – Lazhar Nouar
Thank you, Max, and I am very happy to be with you here today. My name is Lazhar Nouar, and I am today leading the solution team at Group-IB for the META region. Basically, we are looking after fraud topics, basically, for our clients from different industries in the region here, covering the Middle East, KSA, Turkey, and Africa. My journey started 15 years ago, basically in Europe, where I graduated from a French University, Computer Science University. I started my first role in the industry in a company called Accenture, a service company. My first role was a software developer. I started coding applications, but quickly, I realized that I wanted to be behind the why of this equation, and to understand basically what the purpose of what I was coding was, and how I could contribute to solving that. I started shifting into more design and solution roles within Accenture itself. I got the opportunity to work in a very, very important industry like aviation, like automotive. It was really a very rich experience in terms of knowledge, technologies, and so on. Then life took me across the ocean to North America, Canada, and I worked again in the I’m in the service industry for CGI.
During that experience, I started dealing with integration and architectural topics. I started to realize how important technology and business are tied together as well. In order to scale fast, you also need the technology to do that, basically. After the CGI experience, I got my first role in the banking industry with National Bank of Canada, where I was in the integration team working with a lot of architects, basically doing the transformation of the bank from legacy and traditional architecture into modern microservice and cloud-based technology. It was really a very interesting experience in terms of knowledge, in terms of the business value of what we’ve been doing once again. That was really a good learning time for me. Then I shifted again, I crossed the ocean again, or let’s say, I crossed the deserts. Now I’m sitting with you here in the UAE in Dubai, and since that time, I’m working on the other side now. I’m working with the vendor side, the vendor who proposed solutions to different industries. Within that journey, I started with payment and banking technologies, a very innovative sector as well, especially when it comes to the Middle East. We are in the middle of a transformation here.
Africa is a very fast and booming region in terms of new technologies and the next generation of banking. I learned a lot within that space of payment technologies, neo-banks, digital banks, and so on. That’s, again, another very insightful and rich industry. But I quickly realized also that although you can offer very modern technologies in terms of digital banking, very convenient, very seamless, one thing is missing, which is the security part. Because technology needs to be followed with the right mechanism and protection when it comes to combating fraud, this is where I am since years now working on the fraud and financial crime technologies, which today I feel is the right place for me, especially there is a massive need in that in all continents, and especially our region here.
[00:04:43.640] – Maxim Baldakov
Thank you so much, Lazhar, for the overview and very interesting background story. It appears that you have experience in various industries highly relevant to the topic of fraud prevention. Talking about the fraud prevention industry, as you correctly said, it is very fast-paced, but also in a very high-pressure environment from all the responsibility that you have while designing the solution, and a constant battle against the threat actors and fraudsters that keep innovating and so on. What qualities do you need to have to build a successful career in the fraud prevention industry? What strength does someone like you need to have?
[00:05:20.900] – Lazhar Nouar
That’s a very good question, Max. I would say the first quality is to be aware of what we’re doing and what the purpose of what we’re doing is. What we’re doing, to my sense, is a noble mission of protecting others. We all have family, friends, someone that we know who got scammed, defrauded, they lost money. When you think every day that what you do can help these people, it basically means having more protection, for me, that’s the number one motivation. When you have this motivation, it can only help you to be more successful in our industry. Number two, I would say, is passion for technologies because it’s a very fast-paced industry where things are changing and moving every day, as any other technology industry or technological industry. If you have that passion for technology, you are in the right place as well when you work in the fraud industry. The last one that is also important for me is perseverance and curiosity. Because, again, fraud is evolving every day. When you are a fraud practitioner, you also need to be able to do your own research. There is no school that teaches you fraud. It’s all based on research, curiosity, asking colleagues, reading reports, and so on, just to keep always up to date with what’s happening, and why not take a step further?
[00:06:53.940] – Maxim Baldakov
I agree. I totally agree with you. I think a noble mission and constant innovation in the industry are something that keeps me going on a daily basis as well. But you also need to note that it’s not only on the defense side that is constantly innovating. It’s also threat actors, fraud communities, and scammers that are coming up. There are so many ways to attack their victims, to launch social engineering attacks, and so on. Talking about the schemes, especially here in the Middle East, the region that seems to be quite underreported in the sense of regional fraud schemes. We keep hearing about various trends coming from Southeast Asia, Europe, North America, and so on. But maybe you can share something with us about the regional fraud schemes that are taking place right now as you speak.
[00:07:45.820] – Lazhar Nouar
Well, that’s the thing, Max. Basically, when we think about fraud, a lot of it feels like it’s happening somewhere else. A huge scam campaign in Europe, AI, fraud in Asia, and so on. But in reality, the Middle East has its own fraud trends. It’s even more dangerous because it feels familiar, it sounds local. We are talking about groups speaking the same language, having the same cultural references. One of the cases that I can walk you through today is something that happened recently. To my sense, it was one of the most effective and underreported fraud schemes, something that was spreading quietly but with a serious impact on people’s lives. You wouldn’t expect where it started. Actually, it was not in a banking application or any shady SMS phishing link or anything. It started with a very trustworthy government application to protect consumers. Basically, you have had a bad experience transacting somewhere on e-commerce. The government created that portal for consumers to report that bad experience, hoping to have a refund, let’s say. This is what you would naturally do if you had that bad experience. You’re going to register your case, you would register in that portal, and you would report the details of your bad experience.
When you’re done, you receive an email confirmation and even a case number. Everything so far is good. A few days later, you receive a call from someone extremely polite, very professional, referencing very precisely what you have filled out, and even throwing a badge number to sound more official. They have some good news for you, basically. Your case has been studied. You are eligible for a refund. So far, so good. Very happy scenario, right? Now, you need to execute a few steps for the fraudsters to get that refund processed. And it starts as follows. First of all, they will ask you to download the same government application on your mobile. Second step, they will ask you to download a remote access tool like TeamViewer or AnyDesk, so they can actually guide you through the process of the refund. So at that moment, when you downloaded these two applications, they had control of your screen. You see what you see. The next step would be to upload your credit card to that government application. So remember, they are watching. The moment you upload that card, they have access to the card’s details. Now, a few seconds later, you receive an SMS or TP, which is basically a 3D secure. Someone is transacting online. While they keep you calm and reassured, they start draining your card and draining your funds. As you can see, there are three ingredients of trust, data, and remote control that make it extremely effective and extremely dangerous.
[00:11:33.620] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. You mentioned the trust element. I completely agree with you. What I noticed in many previous fraud schemes that I studied is that a big portion of those that are successful have a very strong trust abuse technique. Do you think the government portal image was chosen by the fraudsters because of the trust associated with it?
[00:11:57.340] – Lazhar Nouar
Well, naturally, when we think about public portals, especially to protect consumers, we would not really think that this is something safe. Because they are also fraudsters, they managed to reference precisely that case that they have filed with a case number. That was another element to build trust. Definitely, when fraudsters are exploiting these public services and adding some information on top of that, it definitely builds trust. This is the biggest trick from my perspective.
[00:12:32.220] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. Very interesting. But I’m curious to know, how did the fraudsters manage to target those victims in the first place? It seems like a very targeted attack. You need to understand the people who filed a complaint; you need to know what their pain points are. How did they manage to get that information?
[00:12:52.300] – Lazhar Nouar
That’s a very good question. Basically, as with any fraud scheme, we need to understand the modus operandi and the tactics. After we did our investigation, we found that these fraudsters got this information from these cases that had been filed in the government application via an info-stealing malware. And these are simply like software that can infect your browser or your mobile and start sharing information with the fraudsters. Now, once fraudsters got this information, your credentials, files maybe from a device, personal information, what they would do basically, it could be either the same group starting a social engineering campaign from this information, or that same group who collected the information can sell it in dark forums and dark web, so another group basically can take over and start the social engineering campaign.
[00:13:55.340] – Maxim Baldakov
Well, it seems like a very complex and global network of cyber criminals. That’s something that we are dealing with on a daily basis. Honestly, it’s quite impressive, the scale of their operations, what they are doing behind these fraud schemes, and so I’m talking about the industry response. How do professionals working in the fraud prevention industry tackle such a massive challenge that is driven by that global syndicate of cyber criminals? What is the modern approach to this threat?
[00:14:34.000] – Lazhar Nouar
When you mention global syndicate, this is something very important that I would start with. Today, we are talking about fraud as a business. We are facing very well-organized groups distributed across the globe, connecting basically from any place in the world, using techs to hide their location, to spoof their devices to evade basically any control that you would have as a bank or as a government portal. That’s why the first solution that I would suggest for a financial institution is to have a technology that gives you visibility on these techniques and tactics that are used by fraudsters. And today, it’s very simple to have that. It’s just software that you can embed into your application. You collect some information, nothing personal, only hardware and software information. And basically, you can start watching the activity that is happening on your user sessions. And then it’s very easy to distinguish between a legitimate session and a malicious session. We can easily collect all this telemetry and basically create signals that indicate the presence of this, let’s say, compromise sessions, remote control, social engineering, and so on. For a bank, definitely, we need to have such protections. Now, for government portals, it’s very important to protect these public services because you can see that it can be a backdoor for fraud.
It could start just as a data theft, but then it’s also used to build trust. It’s not only about protecting data, but it’s also because it’s used in the scheme itself. These clusters managed to build trust because they managed to connect to the government portal. The same technology can be applied to government portals to protect against account takeover, synthetic account creation, social engineering, and so on. I would recommend the same technology to governments as well.
[00:16:53.000] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. It seems like an industry will protect or at least have the means or technology to tackle such stress. That’s reassuring. But for the ordinary people, do you have any advice? Because they don’t have access to the technologies, they do not have the knowledge and experience that we have in the fraud prevention industry. What advice do you have for this regular population?
[00:17:22.660] – Lazhar Nouar
First of all, I would say never, ever share any information with anyone. Official institutions, official institutions entities, official entities, will never ask you to download an application, to share your screen, or to share your card details. As soon as you face this situation, just stop that call and contact your bank or your institution to inform them about the situation.
[00:17:48.520] – Maxim Baldakov
Lazhar, thank you so much. I think that’s a very interesting fraud scheme. Thank you for highlighting and providing awareness of this very important topic. But talking about the global trends in general, you did a very good overview of what is happening in the Middle East. But as you know, there has been a lot of advancement lately in the domain of AI. We’re talking about AI agents, LLMs, other technologies emerging at a very fast pace, but also new threats coming as well. From a global perspective, do you see any particular risk associated with this new technology? Any schemes, any fraudulent activity, or group of fraudsters adopting this latest tech to target the victims?
[00:18:37.140] – Lazhar Nouar
Well, when it comes to global trends, that’s also something very important to consider because at Group-IB, we have experts localized everywhere, across all continents, basically. What we know is that when a particular scheme starts in a region, the next step is that this scheme will spread potentially to other regions. It’s also important for us to study what’s happening in other continents in order to be prepared to fight against that scheme in our region. One of the cases that I came across recently happened in South Asia. Our analysts found that in a very famous digital bank in South Asia, over three months, more than 1,000 deep fake accounts managed to circumvent the KYC system of this bank. The KYC system is a process that asks users to take some selfies, to upload an ID document, and to upload a proof of residency in order to pass the biometric verification or identity verification. This is the system that got circumvented. Now, in terms of the modus operandi that was used, it was very unique and very scary, to be honest. We are not facing that traditional fake ID or fake selfie. We are talking about an AI-powered synthetic identity, one that is able to smile, to blink, just as you, as a human would do.
And this makes it very unique and very dangerous. Now, if I wanted to break it down in more detail, just to show you the complexity of this scheme. When it comes to the ID generation, we found out that they used an open technology, AI technology on the web that allows you to create the perfect synthetic ID document for just $15. And this same technology made the headlines recently for being able to pass a major KYC system for a crypto exchange application, just for $15. Now, when it comes to liveness checks and selfies, basically, they are able to take an image, animate it using deepfake or a video, and I mean, animate it using deepfake. Basically, it’s a full mimicry of a human, like facial expressions and even microemotions that they can inject there. Now, once this video is ready, what they can do basically is to inject these videos into virtual cameras that are feeding the KYC system in real-time. You can see how complex this scheme is. It involves very high-tech equipment to perform it. Basically, when you see this happening in South Asia, you can expect this to happen anytime in other regions.
[00:22:04.200] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. What you’re describing is actually quite scary. It’s scary. But in your opinion, is the traditional banking sector equipped to fight these advanced threats? Are they able to protect themselves against such AI-driven cyber fraud attacks?
[00:22:23.920] – Lazhar Nouar
Well, today banks have some technology. First of all, to collect biometrics. As I said, there are a few steps: ID, selfie, proof of residency. Unfortunately, for every one of these steps, as I explained, there is an invasion from the fraudsters. When it comes to ID uploading, again, it is an AI-generated ID. When it comes to selfies, deep fake, when it comes to proof of residency, open libraries are available on the internet to create a utility bill or something. There is some protection, but it’s not enough. Maybe you would ask me the next question: what’s the solution? Basically, there is some good news behind this. Although these deep fakes are not always detected by KYC systems, you can also complement what exists in the banks with behavioral checks. A technology like protection from Group-IB basically can assess how safe these sessions during the KYC process are. Typically, what I would assess here is the presence of an emulator because all this KYC system or KYC fake process was done via emulators and automation. Detecting automation and emulators is something that we can perform very easily. By combining technologies of KYC, improving KYC to be able to detect some deep fakes, and combining this with emulator detection, scanning of the device, checking the location, checking other TTPs, basically, we can offer good protection against this scheme.
Now, what I highlighted is what we call the holistic approach, which involves collaboration. Different departments in a bank or in other institutions also need to talk to each other, as the systems would do as well. So, fraud protection, for example, can integrate with a KYC system or another system to perform a risk-based approach because user experience is also important in this equation. We don’t want to create processes that are too tough in terms of security. This balance is only possible when you make all these components talk to each other in a collaborative way.
[00:25:07.100] – Maxim Baldakov
I totally agree with you, Lazhar. I think that having visibility on what is going on on the customer device when they’re going through such a sensitive journey, like a new account opening, there’s a KYC process, or any other risky journey, is crucial to spotting and then detecting any fraud activity early on. But you mentioned that this particular fraud case is targeting a digital bank in Southeast Asia. Very frequently, I hear this common misconception that it is only the banking industry that is being targeted by the fraudsters, by scammers with those sophisticated AI-driven attacks or just scam campaigns in general, and that other verticals, such as e-commerce, real estate, or other verticals, are not targeted by these fraudsters. Is it really the case?
[00:26:00.840] – Lazhar Nouar
Yeah, indeed. The general perception is that only the financial sector is being targeted. But the reality is that every business that is operating online can be a potential target for fraudsters for various reasons. When we talk about government, as we described before, it involves stealing data, data theft, and building trust. When it comes to e-commerce, it’s these scenarios of card-not-present. When it comes to telecom, for example, there is a very sensitive journey of SIM swap or hijacking the SIM of the victim. In our region, a lot of telcos started offering the journey of e-SIM or virtual SIM. It’s very important to protect. Any sector operating online needs some protection and is targeted, basically. The other example that I wanted to walk you through today is not a very common one in the general perception, but it’s happening. It’s in the real estate sector. Believe me, the damages are very important. It’s basically fraudsters targeting people looking for a property by, first of all, impersonating, let’s say, a landlord, creating a fake listing, communicating with the victims, taking money, basically, and disappearing. The median loss, when we made the calculation, was at least $3,000 per individual per year.
In some way, the damages are even more important than the financial sector. When we accumulate all of this, we are talking about millions of losses.
[00:27:53.900] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. Is it something that’s happening here in the Middle East? If so, can you walk us through the complexity behind that case? What TTPs of the fraudsters in such a particular scenario would be?
[00:28:07.020] – Lazhar Nouar
Absolutely. It’s happening in the Middle East since many countries in our region started to offer all these government services for real estate. As I said, if you are looking for a property, basically all these tenancy contracts and all these operations happen online, on the details of the modus operandi, the target audience, first of all. That’s a very important element to consider. These clusters are targeting primarily expats, newcomers, and people who are not familiar with the local practices. They fall more easily into these schemes. Secondly, they will take an existing listing. They will create a fake copy, and they will publish it on these listing websites online. Then, contacts and communication start between the victim and the fraudster, and it happens generally over WhatsApp, which is a very secure communication channel for fraudsters. Then again, to build trust and make it sound more legitimate, they will use that government portal for real estate to create that fake tenancy contract. They can send it immediately to the victim for signing. And then the last step is to ask for money, so to secure that property, you need to transfer some funds to the fraudsters.
Basically, that’s the end of the process, and fraudsters simply vanish. That’s how I see it.
[00:30:00.790] – Maxim Baldakov
Usually, I think I saw some of these cases, and in many of them, there is an element of urgency that is involved because this fake listing that the fraudsters publish is usually definitely below the market value. They’re saying, I have another person who has contacted me on the same listing. I think it’s also an important element in this scheme.
[00:30:24.120] – Lazhar Nouar
Absolutely. I think the emergency is a very important element, and I will say this also for general awareness. Whenever someone is putting pressure on you to quickly pay for something, that’s generally a bad sign. But just to come back to your question about complexity as well, the reason it’s complex is because it involves manipulation, building trust, etc. But also, there are multiple applications that are involved in this process. Remember, real estate listing application, real estate government application to basically sign the tenancy contract, and banking applications. We have here some silos where fraud is happening, and this is what makes it even more complex.
[00:31:14.740] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. In such a case, how does the real estate industry or that portal where you sign a tenancy contract protect itself against such complicated and multi-domain attacks coming from the fraudsters? What would be an approach or a suggestion from you?
[00:31:37.300] – Lazhar Nouar
There are solutions. When it comes to that government portal, as we have mentioned before about the other government portal, what they need is a technology to give them visibility on malicious activity going on. Again, taking the example of fraud protection, basically, you can capture all these sessions and create a risk score associated with every session. This risk score will tell you how much you can trust that this is a legitimate session, or this is an account takeover, or this is a fake account creation. By doing so, you can effectively eliminate most fraud and protect access to and the creation of accounts within these government portals. Technology exists. It’s just ready to be implemented.
[00:32:40.720] – Maxim Baldakov
I agree. In this fraud scheme that you mentioned, there were multiple bodies involved, multiple portals, and multiple websites. What I’m seeing in the industry, even in the financial sector, is that the fraudsters take advantage of this data fragmentation and lack of information sharing. As a result, they can distribute their infrastructure across multiple entities. If you’re talking about new accounts in the financial sector, or if they’re conducting this large fraud scheme that involves multiple websites, multiple digital channels, and so on. Does the industry have an answer for this? Because it seems like a common problem.
[00:33:21.760] – Lazhar Nouar
Indeed. This is the main challenge, Max. Because of the fragmentation of data and silos and entities not talking to each other, not collaborating with each other. Fraudsters are taking advantage of that. Luckily, we invested heavily in finding a solution to this problem. We came up with a solution that basically can allow all these institutions to share insights about fraud in a confidential fashion. The reason I’m saying confidential is because this is an industry, and you can apply this to, as you said, banking, e-commerce, and government. When it comes to sharing information, this is highly regulated. You cannot just bring technology to share information. There is an entire framework of confidentiality that you need to build as well. The solution that we have built allows that, luckily. Once institutions from different sectors are connected to this centralized technology, they will be able to, first of all, report fraud in real-time and also score a transaction based on the history of these financial insights before making a decision about the transaction. Typically, for a bank, for example, I would ask this platform if this transfer is safe before I execute it. Basically, I will share an IBAN in that case or a phone number.
If that phone number IBAN was reported by another institution in the past, basically, I will get these signals to be careful, and then I can stop this transaction in real-time. This can apply to any domain, any industry. We are talking about telcos that can contribute there. We are talking about law enforcement that can contribute there. We’re talking about the financial sector, fintech, government, and PSPs. Anyone can basically contribute. But because this is highly sensitive and highly confidential, the central entity in the country needs to operate that solution. We are talking here about ministries, government, and central banks. The solution exists. It just needs to be implemented in order to basically close all these blind spots that we have today in the industry.
[00:36:06.860] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. You’re talking about the industry response, right? Something that we’ve been working on for a very long time. However, for regular consumers and users of such real estate portals or government portals, do you have any advice for them regarding this particular scheme?
[00:36:26.040] – Lazhar Nouar
Indeed. This is, again, a general awareness. Never basically transact on something that you don’t know. For example, if we talk about real estate, don’t send money if you haven’t visited the property. Don’t necessarily trust a platform just because it’s the government. Do your due diligence. Meet the people face-to-face. We know that digital is basically meant to remove the physical interaction. But still, take some precautions before sending money to someone you have never seen, because scams are happening a lot, and we see this everywhere, either using a national authentication system to buy and sell insurance, or to buy a car, or sell a car. We are seeing these schemes everywhere. Awareness is critical about what’s happening. I think every institution needs to invest in the awareness of users. Governments need to invest in the awareness of end users and citizens. Every institution, on top of that awareness, needs to implement technologies basically to have visibility on the adversaries and tactics, techniques, and procedures that are used by fraudsters.
[00:37:53.420] – Maxim Baldakov
Another question I wanted to ask you, Lazhar, is that what you have previously mentioned is that the financial sector, traditional banks, and fintech are heavily investing in the area of fraud prevention. They’re collaborating with companies like Group-IB or other vendors to tackle this complex problem of digital fraud. But as we previously discussed, other sectors, such as e-commerce or real estate, they’re, in many cases, very hesitant to adopt new technologies, to invest in fraud prevention, and they’re not seeing that as part of their problem. Why do you think that is happening? What is the main reason behind it?
[00:38:40.860] – Lazhar Nouar
Well, first of all, I think that there is a lack of awareness about what online fraud is. A lot of companies think they are protected just because they have a KYC system or because they have some authentication system. But the reality is that fraudsters find this vulnerability that exists in traditional methods. What is needed is an online technology that can basically spot signs of any malicious activity, as we know. Now, the other sectors, the main reason, from what I see in the field, is that there is no direct financial impact on them, not like a bank. When there is fraud in a bank, the liability falls on the bank. When it comes to other sectors like government and others, there is no financial impact. It’s just that the user is not lucky, goodbye. But the reality is, we see, because we collaborate with banks, we see all these complaints coming from end users. Whenever you read these complaints in the description, you can see that the fraud started from that application in another industry. Either it’s an application, a national application for real estate, a national application to sell cars, etc, a national application to buy insurance, and so on, and public portals, and so on.
Somehow, they are used like the back door and the enabler of fraud. The responsibility of the government and other industries is also to provide protection to these end users. Now, because there is no financial impact and there is no regulation, we are not seeing these sectors move as fast as banks. This is why in our daily interaction with these other industry actors, we are also promoting this awareness about online fraud and its importance. But I think it’s a deeper topic that needs to happen also with ministries and regulators. Since they are the entities that can basically recommend the right measures to be implemented. We have experts and consultants who can basically help these ministries to shape the next generation of fraud framework, basically for the government and any other entity. This is my dream.
[00:41:24.060] – Maxim Baldakov
I think you’re completely correct. I totally agree with you because this complex challenge of digital fraud, in my opinion, is everyone’s problem. If you’re operating online, regardless of the vertical, you are part of this overall effort to stop this. Again, I totally agree with you that it is a role of the government or some regulatory barrier to take the lead on this particular topic and coordinate with multiple industries and multiple verticals to tackle it.
[00:42:03.520] – Lazhar Nouar
That’s perfect. Exactly. Not every country is moving at the same speed. To be completely fair, like what we see in the region, some countries are also making a lot of efforts. We are seeing this coming from different segments of the industry, like real estate. We are also seeing the Minister of Commerce doing things like that, like this, from that perspective of fraud. I’m not completely pessimistic. I think things are moving in the right way, in the right direction, and we will continue to support these entities, government, central banks, and banks, and even individuals, to combat fraud.
[00:42:46.860] – Maxim Baldakov
I see. I think it’s been a very insightful and very interesting conversation. Lazhar, thank you so much for sharing all the stories, regional fraud schemes, and providing awareness. I think it’s very important. Again, thank you for your participation.
[00:43:01.140] – Lazhar Nouar
Thank you, Max, for the opportunity to share this information. I’m looking forward to the next episode.
[00:43:06.160] – Maxim Baldakov
It was the Fraud Intel series podcast. Thank you for watching, and I’ll see you in the next episode.
